Natasha Fatah recently posted an article on CBC titled "The Problem with Arranged Marriage".
For those who don't know, Natasha is the daughter of Tarek Fatah. Tarek Fatah is a resident of Toronto and someone who claims to be Muslim, yet seems to find Muslims to be the root cause of many of our ills and Muslim extremism a fatal threat to the West. In a recent debate with Naheed Nenshi (Mayor of Calgary - first Muslim mayor in Canada) on Al Jazeerah, Nenshi schools Fatah and totally destroys his arguments. The debate is a must watch, with most of the fun beginning at the 8 minute mark, and Tarek Fatah being so easily outclassed. My favourite quote:
"Mr Fatah has made a career out of making this (Muslim extremism) frankly a bigger deal than it is."
In recent times, Tarek Fatah has opposed the New York mosque, been quoted by Sarah Palin, has supported the Oklahoma vote against "Shariah law" and ridiculed a man trying to prepare his will according to his religious laws. In his recent Facebook post, he recommended Asra Nomani, another "Muslim" journalist who publicly supports racial profiling of Muslims.
Natasha Fatah, his daughter (and likewise, of Indo-Pakistani descent), recently married a Caucasian man, and the pictures were posted on Mr Fatah's publicly available Facebook profile.
In one of the pictures Tarek Fatah captioned "Usually the bride is supposed to be coy and shy and quiet, but this is Canada and Natasha shows no 'haya'".
His daughter replies with "I say Bye-byea to haya!".
All of this therefore proves that not only is the Fatah household not your average Muslim household in terms of their relgious views, but also is far removed from your average Pakistani/South Asian household when it comes to customs and rituals. So given all of this, it is not surprising that Natasha Fatah should now turn her guns to another of her own customs, criticizing it (just like her father who has yet to find a single mainstream mosque or Muslim organization he likes).
In her article, Natasha Fatah goes all over the place. First, she associates South Asian culture with arranged marriages.
Arranged marriage has had roots in every corner of this planet but still holds on strongly in South Asia and even among the South Asian diaspora living in the West.
It is a fact that arranged marriages are quite common in all of Asia and Africa. My real estate agent (who is Korean) got married via arranged marriage. Many of my Arab friends found their wives via families using this custom. My Chinese team partner during my MBA studies was a product of an arranged marriage. It's not just a South Asian thing.
Ms. Fatah continues: "But that doesn't mean we still have to accept a tradition that is still not right for its times."
So, I am waiting for her to say WHY it is not right. After all, the title of her column was "The Problem with Arranged Marriage"!
She uses her cousin as an example.
He and his-now-wife had only met a handful of times before they were to marry. In many ways, they were strangers.
But I have to admit that once they did marry I could see them falling in love before my eyes.
Confused? I am too. It sounds like any marriage. There can be love. Or there can't be. You take your chances.
She then goes on to describe problems, general problems of South Asia (such as poverty and fathers saving their whole lives for their daughters' marriages) and equates them to problems with arranged marriages (which are yet to be defined).
The primary reason for arranged marriage still remains that many families want to secure wealth, property and social status for their children.
I don't know about Ms. Fatah's neck of the woods but most people I know who got married via arranged marriages did so because they felt comfortable with someone their parents and families selected. In many ways our families not only know what's best for us, but also knows what type of spouse can go with the family, their culture and their habits etc. Most children are not treated as "objects", counter to Ms. Fatah's claim. She also curiously says it's a "14th century custom". Arranged Marriages came long before the 14th century (which coincidentally is the century when Islam came forth!).
An arranged marriage avoids many pitfalls of traditional courtships. The parents have already approved the match. The family status and religion etc. already match, reducing the chances of conflict and tension. And everyone feels a part of the process, hence they try to make things amicable when there is a fight between the couple.
This is not to put down "love" marriage or other routes of marriages - all have their pluses and minuses and everyone can choose which one works for them and their life style. But I am yet to read on what exactly is the PROBLEM with arranged marriage that Ms Fatah thinks we in the West should completely abolish it!
41 comments:
Ok, so I wasted precious moments of my life by reading her article that is, like you mentioned, all over the place.
I believe she is confusing arranged marriages with forced marriages - those are two completely different situations.
I like how one commenter puts it, "Arranged or not arranged marriages are not the problem. It's only the system. The issue is how two people see and value one another. Both systems can produce healthy and wholesome marriages.
…we are only outraged at arranged marriages because our view of "love" and what we truly "value" is extremely different. And who's to say that we are right?”
Nice write-up. Personally I would like to synthesize the two and go for an arranged love marriage :) But I understand your contention that love marriages also have their pitfalls. Most people especially young ones confuse infatuation for real love and tie the knot. But when the romance phase ends and the novelty of the object, activity or a person diminishes then we come to a conclusion that we’ve made a mistake and a void is created which can’t be filled. Relationships need to be built on a solid foundation of true love, common ground and mutual understanding.
I wonder if anyone has written an answer to this via the newspaper she wrote it for... have they?
@Nadia, what she is trying to do is take the problems of something that IS a problem (such as forced marriage, poverty) and confuse it with a broader term of "arranged marriage". The article tries to blur the two, and pin the problems of the former on the latter. It is a tactic used by many right wing commentators, and also anti-Muslim commentators on US television networks, and I count her father as one of these commentators.
Just like Tarek Fatah, not being an involved Muslim, is somehow an "expert" commentator on Muslim issues, her daughter, while not being involved in any South Asian culture, is now an "expert" on South Asian culture!
@Zest, I know many "arranged" love marriages! They work out well too.
Most people especially young ones confuse infatuation for real love and tie the knot.
I have seen a lot of these happen. And sadly end up in divorce.
This is not to say arranged marriages also don't have bad ends, or there are no unhappy arranged marriages. They do, and there are. The chances though are less.
It simply doesn't make one better than the other - it's up to individuals to choose which model fits their lifestyle.
Relationships need to be built on a solid foundation of true love, common ground and mutual understanding.
Very true. And if I may add, there is no "I" in the "team" that is a "marriage".
@Adventurous Ammena, I don't think so. I am thinking of penning a letter to the CBC but I wonder if it will do any good.
I really think you should respond to this via CBC or any other news paper. Both Mr. Fatah (and now his family, it seems) taint the image of Muslims in the West.
I remember when I was young, my Dad met Tarek Fatah and he told him that he should shave his beard and change his name to a more Western one or else he will "never get ahead" in Canada.
Um? I wouldn't even want to waste my time responding to such a stupid comment.
@Muslim Girl, they are pretty well connected and do sell a lot of books on what is really a bunch of exaggeration. I wonder how Muslims who do such activities sleep at night - if I badmouthed my "community" all the time, how could I be at peace? And does he not realize, the people he badmouths the Muslims to, consider him a part of that community and look down on him as well!
regarding arranged marriages ...
***
All marriages are arranged. Somebody has to arrange them.
In 'theirs' its traditionally individually-arranged. In 'ours' it's traditionally communally arranged. In 'theirs' man & wife marry each other only. In 'ours' man & wife marry each other and the respective clans.
Any institution is great if the marriage works out. If not, no institution is any good.
This is my fly on the wall observation
I think that arranged marriages are fine if the people entering into it want it- Interesting take- will be linking to this on my friday bloggy round up :)
Its unfortunate, but not surprising, that Natasha is continuing the family business.
As for arranged marriages, I think people (espcially non-Muslims and those not acquainted with the cultures that practice it) equate "arranged" marriages with "forced" marriages.
If you look at British media it is rife with stories of "arranged" marriages where the daughter or son is trundled, presumably hog-tied and blind-folded, into a waiting plane and flown to Pakistan there to be married, still hog-tied and blind-folded, to a cousin they’ve never met and don't want to marry.
Thats not what arranged marriages really are, but people who don't know, and only have access to stories like these, or articles like Natasha's, can only assume that they are the same thing.
Thats the problem with so-called “Muslim whistle-blowers and/or reconstructionists” is that they often act without or on incorrect information. I’ve yet to see a well-educated naysayer.
And the Fatah family is only continuing in the same uneducated vein of their predecessors.
And I just want to point out that Islam came in the 7th century CE, not the 14th, unless you’re referencing the advent of Islam in the Indian subcontinent in which case I confess my ignorance of the exact date of that.
OOOOHHH, Mezba! I think that being accused of being quoted by Sara Palin must be the worst kind of critique one can give of anybody!
Meanwhile, There is arranging and arranging. After all, besides chemical attraction there is actually a lot you can know beforehand.
I once watched this program on the BBC where they had an Indian matchmaker helping british to a partner desi-style. She looked at compatibility of character and pursuits and it looked very rational to me, she let the families and friends meet, and I think she was successful in at least two cases.
I think this is not at all a bad way to go about it.
Forced marriage is another thing altogether.
I hated she way she argued this...but I am actually a person who opposes what arranged marriages have turned into in the South Asian culture...
I have no problemt with what Arranged marriages are...to me they are just setting two people up like any blind date type western concept.
The problem I have is in the SA culture, arranged marriages completely degrade women who don't fit the bill. Meaning? If you;re not fair and lovely, 1 X for you, if you're not skinny, another X for you, if you don't represent the norm that is a traditional woman, another X for you. I mean even my own mother does it... Once it was suggested that me being in Computer SWcience may intimidate suitors as an intelligent girl may be seen as too clever and she will manipulate the husband. For guys, its a bit better cause you are not judged by many of the god-given attributes, but can get a PhD and still attract a long list of suitors. Guys also have the option of doing everything under the sun and then going into the Arranged Marriage market to get a good decent girl. I have heard aunty's say many times that they are okay with anything their son does as long as he marries someone they choose. And who do they choose, the young, fair, quiet girl who is willing to marry for the sake of status (or is being forced into by parents).
Girls on the other hand, are frowned upon if they hope for a handsome husband... if she refuse to marry the old, bald PhD's, they are harrassed for being too picky and not flexible enough...as if chemistry and attraction is something not important to women...as if they don't want to be attracted to their husbands...
This is why you will see alot of average looking, intelligent desi girls on the single market...and that is a direct result of the mentality sorrounding SA arranged marriages...
In love marriages, these girls have a much better chance at finding happiness...
If the mentality changes then I have no objection to the idea of arranged marriages, but at the moment, our culture heavily objectifies the woman.
I hated she way she argued this...but I am actually a person who opposes what arranged marriages have turned into in the South Asian culture...
I have no problemt with what Arranged marriages are...to me they are just setting two people up like any blind date type western concept.
The problem I have is in the SA culture, arranged marriages completely degrade women who don't fit the bill. Meaning? If you;re not fair and lovely, 1 X for you, if you're not skinny, another X for you, if you don't represent the norm that is a traditional woman, another X for you. I mean even my own mother does it... Once it was suggested that me being in Computer SWcience may intimidate suitors as an intelligent girl may be seen as too clever and she will manipulate the husband. For guys, its a bit better cause you are not judged by many of the god-given attributes, but can get a PhD and still attract a long list of suitors. Guys also have the option of doing everything under the sun and then going into the Arranged Marriage market to get a good decent girl. I have heard aunty's say many times that they are okay with anything their son does as long as he marries someone they choose. And who do they choose, the young, fair, quiet girl who is willing to marry for the sake of status (or is being forced into by parents).
Girls on the other hand, are frowned upon if they hope for a handsome husband... if she refuse to marry the old, bald PhD's, they are harrassed for being too picky and not flexible enough...as if chemistry and attraction is something not important to women...as if they don't want to be attracted to their husbands...
This is why you will see alot of average looking, intelligent desi girls on the single market...and that is a direct result of the mentality sorrounding SA arranged marriages...
In love marriages, these girls have a much better chance at finding happiness...
If the mentality changes then I have no objection to the idea of arranged marriages, but at the moment, our culture heavily objectifies the woman.
While many of her facts are wrong such as arranged marriage being a 14th century custom (Christians, Jews and before them say the Romans and Greeks were doing it); its written in a childish, juvenile way, which is surprising since she has a couple of post-secondary degrees; and her general idea that ALL arranged marriages are bad, because the boy/girl has known each other for a few weeks, I still do think there is some truth to what the article has pointed out.
#1 She did say that arranged marriages are done for social status; I would say in our culture, it is VERY true. For example, the girl's parents put out ads saying they want a guy with an MBA making a very high salary; while the boy's parents advertise that they want a slim, fair/wheatish and pretty girl, so any girl not meeting those criteria need not apply. Even if boy is no Brad Pitt himself, he and his family will still want a pretty/beautiful woman for his wife, so that they can show her off like some kind of object to their family & friends. Being privy to the discussions behind a few arranged marriages, I can say that the thought of upping one's social status, by getting a well-to do boy or a beautiful girl, is not too far from a parent's mind. Although, this may not be true for every single arranged marriages done, just like the system of dowry is no longer true for every single arranged marriages.
The objectifying of a person, looking for them as if you are interviewing for a potential candidate in an interview, is sadly quite true even in 21st century arranged marriages set in Western countries.
Don't get me wrong- I AM NOT knocking down arranged marriages at all; it is still a practice that has many pros to it. However, the writer does have a few valid gripes about arranged marriages, even though she did not put in the thought and effort to provide a clear argument and was doubly wrong to imply that arranged marriages are simply unique to South Asian and Islam.
I think arrange marriage and love marriage both having lot's of problem.It's up to luck.
As long as both husband and wife truly care about and respect each other and are willing to work out their problems when arguments arise, I don't think what kind of marriage it is matters anymore. I've seen both kinds work and both kinds of marriages fail.
"This is not to say arranged marriages also don't have bad ends, or there are no unhappy arranged marriages. They do, and there are. The chances though are less."
Actually the chances of both types of marriages working out (or not) are the same. That's what relationship psychology class taught me anyway ;).
I agree with everyone who has suggested that you should write to CBC. One would have to be pretty stupid to equate arranged marriages and forced marraiges. Anyway, Ilham pretty much summed up how I feel.
- Asha
(I can't remember my password so i'm just sticking with "Anonymous" :P)
@Asrarul bhai,
All marriages are arranged. Somebody has to arrange them.
Very well said!
I think as an institutions both are sound. However marriage itself is like a lottery - you only know how the other person is once you live with them. And even then ...
@Aisha, thanks I look forward to it!
@Molly, firstly, thanks for the "7th century" correction thing. Islam came 1400 years ago - somehow I wrote that as 14th century ! :-)
second, I have seen articles in English newspapers about how older English ladies who are widows or divorcees, are seduced by young men in third world countries. The women think they are in love, get married to these guys, sponsor them into coming to the UK and then face the reality, the men were just in it for the money and papers.
No one equates this with "love" marriage - so why are forced marriages equated with "arranged" marriages? That's the stereotype Ms Fatah is playing upon and deliberately confusing in the article.
@Aafke Art, when the whole NYC mosque controversy blew up, I knew it was only a matter of time before Mr Tarek Fatah would write against the mosque, and he did, and then Sarah Palin quoted him! This was the same sequence of posts as her 'refudiate' tweet.
The way arranged marriage is nowadays its very methodical. Its about matching family values as well as choices, preferences and likes and dislikes.
You are right, forced marriages are a different beast - you can see my reply to Molly on that take.
@Nazias, thanks for the interesting comment - very thought provoking.
When people look for love - I am yet to meet someone who goes out looking for ugly person to fall in love with! :-D
I am sure everyone starts looking for someone hot, someone rich, someone desirable, someone from a good family, and someone who matches their values, preferences etc. In an arranged marriage those choices are sometimes state up front.
arranged marriages completely degrade women who don't fit the bill.
I think it's the same every where. ANY one who doesn't fit the bill will have a harder time to find someone else.
What you say in your post is more about culture isn't it - since yours isnt' an arranged marriage and you ran into the same type of issues.
I think our desi culture has a very bad habit (call it post-colonial mentality) of prefering white skin, of shunning all but a few chosen professions (engineers/lawyers/doctors), of looking down badly on smart women ...
In love marriages, these girls have a much better chance at finding happiness...
You can read this post of mine, written long before I was married btw.
Why Do Men Go Back To Marry?
I am sure you will disagree with some of the points, and agree with others! :-)
@Ilham, from my experience, mothers of guys who do not look like Brad Pitt and yet are trying to land an Angelina Jolie tend to remain unmarried till they are into the 35s! :-)
The objectifying of a person, looking for them as if you are interviewing for a potential candidate in an interview, is sadly quite true even in 21st century arranged marriages set in Western countries.
Ha ha - there is this! Questions to ask a potential spouse
Now that's an interview lol.
@Loginbd, do you wish to elaborate?
@Liya, well said and I agree, especially knowing you two!
@Asha, Homer Simpson was told one in 25 arranged marriages fail - that's my source :-D I wonder if I can cite that in an academic paper.
this girl shoul never watch vivaah! lol
Im not sure i like arranged marriages the pure traditional way..the kind where the parent's find out everything then the children just say *yes* w/o even getting to know the prospect for a while. Your education, status may match but your thoughts, goals, and way of looking at life might not...
I prefer the kind where both children and parents are involved. And there's no pressure..
@youngMuslimah, in modern times guys and girls do get to know each other via emails, meetings and conversations - since it is now important that ideas, values, preferences etc. match between the two - and final decision is now left to the couple. The days of "I am marrying your daughter to my son for three cows and one goat" are long gone.
I actually don't read or listen to this Fatah guy, just a waste of time and now I see the daughter has jumped on the *family business too.
Arranged marriages are not only donw in SA cultures but in many cultures. It's true, she has blurred the notion of arranged marriages and forced marriages. Most of the arranged marriages don't happen like they used to some years ago. The two parties do meet, there's a period of *knowing* each other and if they think they would be compatible, then they go ahead with it. I know a lady who once told me that she wishes she had gone through an arranged marriage whereby her family would have managed to find someone compatible for her. She says that her love marriage was just *lust*. Her own words!!!!
It's all a matter of how you go about it. All marriages have to go through a sort of an arrangement. Be it dating(well, someone somehow introduces the couple!) or through an arrangement whereby so and so would know someone whom they think would make a great spouse!!! Towards the end, its the two involved individuals who decide whether they decide to tie the knot or not. sf
I actually don't read or listen to this Fatah guy, just a waste of time and now I see the daughter has jumped on the *family business too.
Arranged marriages are not only donw in SA cultures but in many cultures. It's true, she has blurred the notion of arranged marriages and forced marriages. Most of the arranged marriages don't happen like they used to some years ago. The two parties do meet, there's a period of *knowing* each other and if they think they would be compatible, then they go ahead with it. I know a lady who once told me that she wishes she had gone through an arranged marriage whereby her family would have managed to find someone compatible for her. She says that her love marriage was just *lust*. Her own words!!!!
It's all a matter of how you go about it. All marriages have to go through a sort of an arrangement. Be it dating(well, someone somehow introduces the couple!) or through an arrangement whereby so and so would know someone whom they think would make a great spouse!!! Towards the end, its the two involved individuals who decide whether they decide to tie the knot or not. sf
@Sf, post 9-11, their family business is a very lucrative one!
long gone for upper and middle class maybe..not so much for the rest. (talking abt ppl back home, at least from what i have seen)
@youngMuslimah, I would think that in the villages for example they don't put too much stock in husband/wife's own preferences and the couple themselves don't care much for it because they have been raised to think like that - they depend on their elders to find a good match and try to make a home with whoever they are married to. So again, they don't care about it so it doesn't happen.
In the cities where people are educated personal preferences matter more - so there is meetings, telephones, etc. to "get to know each other better".
Talking of marriages, I was a bit surprised by this ruling below:
"Due to the above, the Fuqahaa (Jurists) have stated that among Arabs, a
non-Quraishi male is not a match (Kuf) for a Quraishi woman, nor can any
person of non-Arab descent be a match for a woman of Arab descent.
For example, the Sayyids, whether Siddique or Farooque, Uthmaani or Alawi,
or belonging to some other branch can never be matched by any person not
sharing their lineage, no matter his profession and family status. These
families (Sayyids, etc.) are suitable matches for one another, since they
share descent from the Quraishi tribe. Thus, marriages between themselves
are correct and permitted without any condition as appearing in Darrul
Mukhtaar:
'. And Kafaa'at in lineage. Thus the Quraysh are suitable matches for one
another as are the (other) Arabs suitable matches for one another.'
The ruling relevant to non-Arabs is as follows: 'An Ajmi (non-Arab) cannot
be a match for a woman of Arab descent, no matter that he be an Aalim
(religious scholar) or even a Sultan (ruling authority). This is the correct
view.) "
http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask.pl?q=6225&act=view
@Musa, I can have no hesitation in saying that's a pretty nonsense ruling.
Not only did the Prophet (A Quraish) marry non-Quraish women (even, *gasp* a Jewess!) but didn't he say in his last sermon that no Arab is better than a non-Arab?
I wonder where these "fuqaha" get their ruling and what weed are they smoking.
Or perhaps they are talking about a specific time, case and context.
Nazias said what I wanted to say. Arrange marriage is all about outer look, then status, & then personality and biggest weight is in getting 6+ people to agree. Love/meeting without families tend to be more about character/ personality/look all at once & biggest weight is in chemistry. At least one doesn't end up rejecting a potential based on biodata and picture alone.
Also those modern arrange give parents and kids depression. Take my house for example. my mom assumed there is a shortage of guys when she was looking for me and emotionally harasses me for not going back home. When it came to my bro's turn (educated, religious, good-looking guy) she though it was her turn to rule. But soon she realizes the few girls she knew weren't compatible with bro & matching her needs+bros is difficult, even if they go back home. Now she realize her network of people is small & feels like a failure as a mother for not being able to get her son hitched.
This is what is wrong with arrange marriage where the pressure is on parents who not only raised a kid but now have to worry about whom they will bang. It’s nice if parents know someone already but to actively look for their kids and stress out is silly and wrong
@Era, yes I agree there are some problems in arranged marriages - the short network here makes finding compatible matches tough. Perhaps another post is in order - of problems in arranged marriages and how to solve them.
I read your Zawaj.com link and at first look I thought they were being tongue-in cheek; but little by little, I realized that it was actually for real.
It gave me a bit of a headache to read that long list of interview questions, but hey, different strokes for different folks.
And while the non-Brad Pitts looking for Angelina Jolies may remain single longer, they do find someone eventually, usually someone who would normally be way out of their league. Because after all in our South Asian culture, its a "man's world" and as long as the man is bringing in good money and has the attached social prestige, the girl and their girl's parents will generally be eager for the match!
@Ilham, that list of questions is not for me either - my preference would have been to meet someone and get to know them well enough to be able to answer those questions without asking them.
I know some people who actually take that zawaj article as gospel. They are still single!
I don't think "small network" is the issue because people back home rely heavily on "ghotok/matchmaker" who are probably less reliable then internet dating site.
@Era, this is if you are going "back home".
Looks like Ms Fatah's article is now available here http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-problem-with-arranged-marriage-1.963175
Ms Fatah's "article" is now on http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-problem-with-arranged-marriage-1.963175
Time and time again the Muslim world of ours sees traitors and trouble makers like salman Rushdie,tasleema nasree, Ayan hirsi ali and a few others. in the language of the Quran we call them the shayatin. They are on this earth to create mischief for the their community. They are not Muslims in any way at all although they still do not change their Muslim names. In Islam it is permitted to discuss,debate and even question certain social practice's of Islam. In fact the Islamic scholars were the earliest pioneers of world discussion forums among different religions. If these people like the Fatah ,hirsi type want to escape from our noble religion Islam they are welcome. Good riddance. They are bad taste anyway. But why don't they leave the Muslims alone is the question. They passionately go around the world denigrating the entire community of 1.6 billion people. Tarek fateh is the best friend of the enemies of Muslims of of India. He asks the Indian fascist government to bomb Pakistan. He wants Muslims of the sub continent to change their names to Hindu sounding names. He has no respect for the cultural values of Islam nor has he understood the beauty of the religion. He associates himself with the likes of Robert Spencer,pamela Geller sworn enemies of Muslims. People like tarek fateh have lost their humanitarian norms and have succumbed to the devil. They have no conscience as they are false,incorrect and opportunistic apart from being biased against Sunni Islam. May the devil be with him.
@Rezan, I hope they get guided, but if they continue their hatred, they are only hurting themselves in the long run.
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