tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post1248593308543605548..comments2024-03-25T01:20:22.817-04:00Comments on a bengali in TO: Cross Culture Marriage and Racismmezbahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-9775631210812846922017-04-27T15:59:44.018-04:002017-04-27T15:59:44.018-04:00Actually there is a verse referring to the creatio...Actually there is a verse referring to the creation of nations and tribes that they may know one another in the Qura'n.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-47314726344503810592017-04-27T15:58:51.721-04:002017-04-27T15:58:51.721-04:00Actually there is a verse referring to the creatio...Actually there is a verse referring to the creation of nations and tribes that they may know one another in the Qura'n.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-49597754026998711202015-07-22T17:08:22.523-04:002015-07-22T17:08:22.523-04:00I am a Bengali guy and I'm not defending Benga...I am a Bengali guy and I'm not defending Bengali guys at all (Bengali girls are on average way better than Bengali guys, attitude wise etc.).<br /><br />But I do think the tired outdated stereotype of Bengali guys marrying outside more often than girls needs to go. It'#s part of a broader issue in the Bengali community whereby anything Indo-Pakistani (North, not South Indian) can be applied to Bengalis. That's not the case.<br /><br />I feel like the colorism is present among both Bengali girls and guys (we're talking born in the West here). But Bengali guys are slightly more likely to marry a Bengali than Bengali girls are. Bengali girls are more likely to go for White, Arab, Pakistani etc. particularly because of the light skin (Bengali guys too, but lower rates).<br /><br />Also, Islamically it does not say anywhere that's it's recommended you marry other ethnic groups. It just says there's no problem with it and it's allowed etc (Back then Arabs wouldn't marry other Arabs due to tribalism etc.). The idea that it's recommended or even a must, has been created by young Bengalis/Pakistanis/Arabs/insert group in order to try and "Islamically" justify the dating/in some cases sleeping around they have done and so get married. <br /><br /><br />Regardless, people can do whatever but my biggest pet peeves are people who say Mixed babies are the cutest or Mixed people look the best. This is subjective as people of the same "ethnic group" are mixed anyway. Race and ethnicity are social constructs. 2 black people can be more different than a black and a white person. Africa is the most genetically diverse place on Earth.<br /><br />Cutest and best looking are highly subjective and these ideas have a highlight charged history of being used against "full" black girls and boys and today against "full" desi boys and girls. As we've seen with the whole team lightskin and team darkskin stuff.<br /><br />I just want any full Bengali couples out there or full Arab or whatever to know your baby is not ugly! My Bengali relatives have been told by other Bengali/White and Bengali/Arab couples their babies are uglier than theirs and I won't stand for it.<br /><br />Beauty comes from within. Raise your child to be educated, thoughtful, caring, a good Muslim etc, know their language, culture, history, struggle etc. This will be more than enough.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-52696569092319895132007-01-25T14:20:00.000-05:002007-01-25T14:20:00.000-05:00This was the original comment that I deleted above...This was the original comment that I deleted above because it had an email in it.<br /><br />Abu Sinan: Yes mine was one example that's quite commonly used in the Bengali community when warning against marriage to a Pakistani boy. On the whole drinking (while it happens) is less of a problem (as it is less severe) in Bengali communities than others (except the army).<br /><br />Yes I think there is a distaste associated with dark skin. Even if you have two people of the same community, people as a spouse will pick the fairer one. It is about people's preferences so I cannot say it is right or wrong.<br /><br />Maybe it is less of a problem amongst Arabs, but amongst Bengalis marrying a white guy is seen as a sign of getting "lost". On the other hand, marrying Arab girls by South Asians is becoming more common.<br /><br />I do agree though that families sometimes contribute a lot to the failure of such marriages.<br /><br />Liya: My email is ____<br /><br />M&M: I know one friend whose father is Indian origin and mother is Chinese (they are from Mauritus where such mixes are common)! Now imagine how smart this guy is!!<br /><br />Shaz, Abu Sinan: I think it depends on your cases as well. Like you both are from mixed cultures which makes you more broad minded.<br /><br />If I married a Bengali woman (and truth be told I would like to because I am used to and feel at home with them and so on) I would probably take a dim view of another ethnicity when it comes for marriage of kids (long in the future).<br /><br />Zehra: OMG you are so polite!!!<br /><br />I took the Sun article because it is getting a lot of press recently - it was even on the National!<br /><br />I don't agree with their news or their editorial (Peter Worthington is an a-hole, only Eric Margolis is the true good guy) but it's still an important publication and when it raises some issues (rightly or wrongly) they need to be addressed.mezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-52137748014013272332007-01-19T23:04:00.000-05:002007-01-19T23:04:00.000-05:00Arafat: I would be VERY interested in reading that...Arafat: I would be VERY interested in reading that paper you mentioned. You are right, it would be different with girls than guys. When a brown guy snags a non-brown girl, we think he "got" her. If a brown girl goes with a non-brown guy we "lost" her.<br /><br />Abu Sinan: I better not say anything about racism of Arabs. Living in the middle east for quite a while has taught me that not everything with Arabic on it is holy. You are right - they look down on subcontinent and look up to white people.<br /><br />Sonia: So true.. it all depends on how one defines racism. I think if someone believes their culture should be preserved amongst the future generations it is not racism. Your comment is quite fair.<br /><br />PS. Bangladesh also has lots of playGIRLS ..lolmezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-53427935684604681792007-01-18T11:21:00.000-05:002007-01-18T11:21:00.000-05:00"I think when parents object to such marriages, it..."I think when parents object to such marriages, it is more of a desire to see their own cultural traditions maintained in the next generation".<br /><br />well it all depends on how one defines racism doesn't it? at the end of the day for some reason it's achieved more notoriety than other forms of social discrimination. or a sub-set of what i call the wider problem of 'group-ism' i.e. Race is a type of 'group' that has come to have great social significance for people. <br /><br />Now a lot of people think their cultural traditions are superior to others. One could say that was similar to the issue of some perceiving their race is superior. Of course one could say - well i wouldn't <i>say</i> my cultural traditions are superior, i just <i>prefer</i> them to others. Fair enough? Well as you say - it's up to them isn't it. Food for thought isn't it? One might add that similar sentiments were voiced with reference to racial segregation back in the day in the US... And ditto for the anti-miscegenation laws - which in Alabama were only lifted in 2000. (Frankly, I personally think the anti-miscegenation laws were highly racist.) <br /><br />But yeah - of course it's all subjective! <br /><br />But at the end of the day what i find highly presumptuous is not people expressing their opinion that people of 'different cultures' should not marry -but the idea that people who come from the same place have the same 'culture' in the first place or that they are less likely to have 'differences'. <br /><br />And there are plenty of playboys in Bangladesh! NOt just in Lahore..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-7044835318159649172007-01-18T00:07:00.000-05:002007-01-18T00:07:00.000-05:00I work with a Pakistani mahajaba. A very nice gir...I work with a Pakistani mahajaba. A very nice girl.<br /><br /> She is married to an Arab, which used to be very rare. In crass, racist ideas that are pretty common in the Arab community, such a marriage would be considered "marrying down."<br /><br /> Funny thing is many Arab women would love to marry white converts, there are just not enough of us, and the problems the MEN in their culture would give them.أبو سنانhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213826171467402183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-63964893564181905272007-01-17T12:37:00.000-05:002007-01-17T12:37:00.000-05:00I think the issue is quite complicated. And I also...I think the issue is quite complicated. And I also think that it's hard to explain it with anecdotal evidence, since as you said yourself, there are stories of both success and failure. In itself, the case of your friend doesn't prove much; that her "husband had turned from Prince Charming to Abusive Drunk and Playboy" has little to do with the fact that he's Pakistani. A different person of a different ethnic/national background could've ended up the same or worse. Of course, I'm only saying all this to make a theoretical point, because I totally agree with your casual statistical observation (in one of the comments above) re. drinking and Bengalis -- almost all of the abusive drunks amongst my friends happen to be Pakistanis, not even American, and certainly not Bangladeshi!<br /><br />The factors that complicate this matter include not only culture and ethnicity but also gender and stereotypes. For example, compare a desi son approaching his parents about marrying a white girl versus a desi daughter approaching her parents about marrying a white boy. The situations are likely to be strikingly different! Furthermore, I think the question of race does play a strong role, albeit implicitly. The person who helped me realize this is a friend who has been in a stable "interracial" relationship for several years: she pointed out that the situation will be very very different, undoubtedly worse, if a desi boy/girl were to approach his/her parents about marrying a Black girl/boy. And I think she's damn right.<br /><br />In the end, the topic of "interracial" marriages isn't limited to desis/Muslims (though for us it becomes more complicated). I was reading a brilliant sociology paper on racism, where they wrote about a survey in which a sampling of white people were broached on the topic of interracial marriage, and some of the answers were so ridiculous, in a way it was almost enlightening!Rawihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11166389198072155897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-59696835876575998462007-01-16T19:26:00.000-05:002007-01-16T19:26:00.000-05:00Samosa, I could do a whole post on Ash - Abhishek....Samosa, I could do a whole post on Ash - Abhishek. So far Ashwarya is only involved with guys she is making movies with, and then dumps them once the career flops.<br /><br />As for the mixed race, I read your blog, I believe you! I think you got it right, it's <I>easier</i> to just marry into your own race.<br /><br />Shabina: um, trying to put it in halal terms, but, um...<br /><br />let's say your hand is, er, dirty, and how are you going to press the liquid soap dispenser button? And who is going to clean <I>that</i>?<br /><br />grossed out yet?lolmezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-89700113920045551232007-01-16T16:06:00.000-05:002007-01-16T16:06:00.000-05:00er...in what possible way is bar soap better than ...er...in what possible way is bar soap better than the liquid stuff??Shabinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08501205319317829947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-11406908466613103432007-01-16T02:33:00.000-05:002007-01-16T02:33:00.000-05:00That marriage is such a set up. Each time I see th...That marriage is such a set up. Each time I see that stupid Ashwaria's (sp?) face I want to smash it with my backside.<br /><br />Onto other matters. As much as we like to live in our own lala land. Canada is a very racist place. And you'd be suprised to note that even mixed-race couples can be racist too. Trust me, I was in one.<br /><br />But hey, I don't want to get into this. It is 'easier' if you marry within your own culture. It may not be rewarding for some, but there are difficulties in mixed-race/culture marriages. There is nothing to say which is better or worse, it's simply a matter of preference. I say this all from experience....<br /><br />Your dad is a funny man.<br /><br />I like him.<br /><br />S<br /><br />PS: About the mixed kids always being good looking... ha ha ha, I used to think that too. I can show you how that equation is not always true!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-9759550629148389652007-01-15T22:50:00.000-05:002007-01-15T22:50:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.mezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-81913970559060674472007-01-15T21:14:00.000-05:002007-01-15T21:14:00.000-05:00i agree with a lot of things you talk about, mezba...i agree with a lot of things you talk about, mezba, but i have one question: (with all due respect, of course)....if i may ask, why are you even considering the Toronto Sun as a reliable source? from what i know it's a shoddy newspaper that publishes a lot of questionable material and does not in anyway compare to papers like the Toronto Star or even the Globe and Mail? i understand that you don't necessarily agree with their survey but i wouldn't be surprised that such unwarranted views are coming from them in the first place.<br /><br />once again, no offense intended ... :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-32031502098434271662007-01-15T21:01:00.000-05:002007-01-15T21:01:00.000-05:00I am with Shaz. There are two things that matter ...I am with Shaz. There are two things that matter to my wife and I. Is the person decent, and how is their deen? Race? Ethnicity? That means nothing.أبو سنانhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213826171467402183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-11675003527103007312007-01-15T19:14:00.000-05:002007-01-15T19:14:00.000-05:00"Lot of desis are very territorial as you say, esp..."Lot of desis are very territorial as you say, especially about the women."<br /><br />you know I tend to think that there is some feelings of superiority involved here. at least I see it blaringly with my husband's family. and I have to said it is racist.<br /><br />Of course this is not to say every desi is like this, but the ones I have encountered at least. And I say that it totally shocks me, because I would never think like that, I would never say someone is not 'good enough' for my kids based on their ethnicity.<br /><br />totally agree with Abu Sinan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-27655523769094348492007-01-15T18:27:00.000-05:002007-01-15T18:27:00.000-05:00Mezba, you are right, we are a product of our cult...Mezba, you are right, we are a product of our cultures too and that sets up certain expectations <br /><br />and ya the above comment by Abu Sinan<br /><br />"... I can also tell you that the failure rate for such marriages would probably drop 50% if the families kep their noses out of it and stopped MAKING issues."<br /><br />which is also said by quite a few commentators, i would agree. a lot of times these marriages end up breaking up (or even same culture marriages) because families make problems. <br /><br />i am still hoping to see an asian(oriental chinese/japanese etc) and brown couple's kid. so far i have never come across one.M&Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12529620161652834127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-17182379857824770382007-01-15T17:25:00.000-05:002007-01-15T17:25:00.000-05:00I don't want to put my email on my blog, but I'm c...I don't want to put my email on my blog, but I'm curious to know! What's yours? - I'll email you first :)'liyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09682312785305176809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-53178435311781584322007-01-15T14:26:00.000-05:002007-01-15T14:26:00.000-05:00Maliha,
Mixed kids are the cutest! Although I ...Maliha,<br /><br /> Mixed kids are the cutest! Although I am biased.......lolأبو سنانhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213826171467402183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-24352477477583884922007-01-15T14:24:00.000-05:002007-01-15T14:24:00.000-05:00I dont think your example is a good one Mezba. I ...I dont think your example is a good one Mezba. I think most cross cultural relationships break down for other reasons, not because the other person turns out to be a drunk.<br /><br /> I know of more than a few same culture relationships that broke up because of alcohol abuse and the like.<br /><br /> As to the success rates of these marriages, how much of that is due to the couple themselves rather than the nonsense done by members of both sides of the family who are against the marriage in the first place?<br /><br /> I have seen, first hand, how much of it IS based on racism. Like the girls I knew who wanted to marry someone who wasnt Pakistani, but that turned out not to be the problem, the fact that the guy was black is what was the issue. If she had been marrying someone like me, it would have been okay.<br /><br /> It is often about "marrying up" so to speak. A black American, an Indian, an African is "going up" but a white American sure is.<br /><br /> There is a lot of racism involved in this Mezba, and I can also tell you that the failure rate for such marriages would probably drop 50% if the families kep their noses out of it and stopped MAKING issues.أبو سنانhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213826171467402183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-17804657364269319572007-01-15T12:57:00.000-05:002007-01-15T12:57:00.000-05:00Suroor: thanx for your comments. As usual, you are...Suroor: thanx for your comments. As usual, you are very unique. Most parents would definitely have a problem with their kids not marrying into their own kind. I guess coming from a background of mixed marriages has broadened your opinion.<br /><br />Maliha, sf: I think you are right. I lean more to "why marry outside your culture, you might get additional challenges" view but that's the easy way out.mezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-3314095422514409912007-01-15T11:02:00.000-05:002007-01-15T11:02:00.000-05:00I think many pple think that by marrying someone o...I think many pple think that by marrying someone outside their ethnicity would create problems. I always prayed that I marry someone similar to me. My husband is from the same cultural background as myself,so we have the same upbringing and the same origin. Racism exists in different forms,but other pple would say it is not racism but just indifference (?). There is also the *class* issue whereby pple from the same culture/ethnicity cannot marry someone who is below their *class*. Now what is that called? sfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-33443004250269848732007-01-15T09:43:00.000-05:002007-01-15T09:43:00.000-05:00Salamaat,
One more point I forgot to mention, my h...Salamaat,<br />One more point I forgot to mention, my hubby and I both spent a long time in the US and some time in the ME. I think that helped a lot too...similar experiences of where we lived etc.<br /><br />I don't think it would have worked as great, if he had never left Yemen or Kenya..both of which would have created mad issues for us. Does that make sense?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-42797783846601859522007-01-15T04:04:00.000-05:002007-01-15T04:04:00.000-05:00In many cases parents don't want mixed marriages f...In many cases parents don't want mixed marriages for their children because they want to maintain their roots and culture. In other cases they just don't like the culture of the suitor, which would be racism. <br /><br />I know that my children will perhaps not marry into South Asians or Arabs and I think I won't have any problems with that. Globalisation means this too. <br /><br />Personally, my grandfather and father both married non-Pakistanis which makes us a lot more tolerant.<br /><br />Thought-provoking post, Mezba and I think I like what the imam said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-46732854694300666432007-01-14T21:39:00.000-05:002007-01-14T21:39:00.000-05:00Shaz: I only know a couple of guys from IMAP well....Shaz: I only know a couple of guys from IMAP well. Mike? I might have to see him to tell you, might know by face but most likely no.<br /><br />As for the statement of the Pakistani guys, that was actually told to me by a Pakistani guys. Lot of desis are very territorial as you say, especially about the women.mezbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450639860657867772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7600258.post-34626235414960282092007-01-14T21:36:00.000-05:002007-01-14T21:36:00.000-05:00oh, and additionally... ok if Pakistani guys have ...oh, and additionally... ok if Pakistani guys have a bad rep... but I do notice A LOT of east indian ppl, regardless of their religion, have this very territorial thing about they offspring getting married to their "kind"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com